How was trunks so strong?

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How was trunks so strong?
Tweet Topic Started: Oct 21 2017, 12:07 AM (1,702 Views)
superperfectnerd	Oct 21 2017, 07:11 PM Post #16
Posts: 3,718 Group: Member Member #11,519 Joined: July 15, 2014	Is Goku stronger than Merged Zamasu? No. The writers don't give a s* about feats and scaling so neither do I. Trunks fought Black because it looked cool, Zamasu knocked Goku back because it looked cool but if ssjb Vegeta post ROSAT > ssj rose Black > ssj rage Trunks > ssjb Goku and Vegeta > Zamasu > ssj2 Trunks then Trunks can't be on Black's level as a ssj2 and Black was holding back against Goku and Trunks or he'd have not just stomped Trunks but Goku too. Trunks can't be on par at ssj2, then transform further beyond blue Goku and Vegeta and then still be weaker than Black but was still in his league before as a ssj2? There's no point in trying to work it out. The story told us Black was all powerful and Zamasu opted for immortality over power. The cool combat feats were just eye candy without much thought. Edited by superperfectnerd**, Oct 21 2017, 07:16 PM.



+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans	Oct 21 2017, 08:05 PM Post #17
魔王子 Posts: 9,798 Group: Elite Member Member #10,492 Joined: November 16, 2013 Gender Male Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Dragon Ball	Obviously not, but there's actual evidence that Merged Zamasu was holding back, and that Goku merely surprised him. We can be sure of that since not even Kaio-ken could keep Merged Zamasu down. Merged Zamasu also powered up after the whole Kaio-ken thing. Plenty of evidence he was holding back because he was underestimating everyone. Other than statements, what else can we use to scale besides feats? We see Zamasu hold off Goku. We see Trunks block an attack meant for Goku and survive a Rose Kamehameha. We can't just ignore these things because they stretch credulity.
	Battle Power Guide 3DS FC: 2707-1669-7946 XBL/PSN: MaOujiBejita


Vegerot1990	Oct 21 2017, 08:14 PM Post #18
Posts: 490 Group: Member Member #13,460 Joined: August 21, 2016 Gender Male	superperfectnerd Oct 21 2017, 07:11 PM Is Goku stronger than Merged Zamasu? No. The writers don't give a s* about feats and scaling so neither do I. Trunks fought Black because it looked cool, Zamasu knocked Goku back because it looked cool but if ssjb Vegeta post ROSAT > ssj rose Black > ssj rage Trunks > ssjb Goku and Vegeta > Zamasu > ssj2 Trunks then Trunks can't be on Black's level as a ssj2 and Black was holding back against Goku and Trunks or he'd have not just stomped Trunks but Goku too. Trunks can't be on par at ssj2, then transform further beyond blue Goku and Vegeta and then still be weaker than Black but was still in his league before as a ssj2? There's no point in trying to work it out. The story told us Black was all powerful and Zamasu opted for immortality over power. The cool combat feats were just eye candy without much thought. Goku won the beam struggle against Initial Merged Zamasu. The Kamehameha pierced through the Holy Wrath and caused the big Explosion. Then Goku used the Kaioken to knock away Zamasu after he grab his leg. After that Zamasu powered up with Light of Justice. Thats why Fusion was needed. Goku never was stronger than Merged Zamasu. He crushed both the arms of Goku and Vegeta at the same time. They were using big Amplifier Attacks to overpower Zamasu. Edited by Vegerot1990**, Oct 21 2017, 08:15 PM.



superperfectnerd	Oct 21 2017, 08:36 PM Post #19
Posts: 3,718 Group: Member Member #11,519 Joined: July 15, 2014	If Zamasu can achieve blue tier power on his own then why did he need to steal Goku's body in the first place? If Zamasu is that strong then Merged Zamasu being hurt by Goku amped attack is even worse kaioken or not, he should be far too strong to be 'surprised' by an attack from Trunks and Vegeta and then Goku as well. This rationalisation of these moments by you is just as silly as my rationalisation of Trunks fighting Black and Zamasu pushing back Goku. The feats in this arc and Super in general are just inconsistent. Edited by superperfectnerd, Oct 21 2017, 08:37 PM.



+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans	Oct 21 2017, 08:40 PM Post #20
魔王子 Posts: 9,798 Group: Elite Member Member #10,492 Joined: November 16, 2013 Gender Male Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Dragon Ball	Good question. At the end of the day, he didn't really need Black, did he? He would have won without his help.
	Battle Power Guide 3DS FC: 2707-1669-7946 XBL/PSN: MaOujiBejita


+ Pyrus	Oct 21 2017, 08:43 PM Post #21
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	Makes me wonder how Zamasu went from SSJ2 level to Blue level in no real time at all. Or were those different Zamasus?
	Spoiler: click to toggle


superperfectnerd	Oct 21 2017, 08:48 PM Post #22
Posts: 3,718 Group: Member Member #11,519 Joined: July 15, 2014	Black came to Zamasu but Zamasu proved to be near Black's level by the end if he can take on ssjb Goku fairly evenly. Surely the saiyan would eventually tire fighting a high tier opponent and Zamasu could just kill him or even an army of ssjb fighters. Unless of course he's much weaker and Goku was holding back because he expected Zamasu to be on the level of present Zamasu, which he's not, he's just stronger than Goku was expecting. Making Black's power more worthwhile as Zamasu can't achieve the heights of a saiyan...which is kind of the whole reason he's so frustrated with mortals. Edited by superperfectnerd, Oct 21 2017, 08:49 PM.



+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans	Oct 21 2017, 08:55 PM Post #23
魔王子 Posts: 9,798 Group: Elite Member Member #10,492 Joined: November 16, 2013 Gender Male Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Dragon Ball	Pyrus Oct 21 2017, 08:43 PM Makes me wonder how Zamasu went from SSJ2 level to Blue level in no real time at all. Or were those different Zamasus? Didn't Black and Zamasu wipe out all mortals in all 12 universes? I imagine that'd take a while, which would give Zamasu plenty of time to get stronger.
	Battle Power Guide 3DS FC: 2707-1669-7946 XBL/PSN: MaOujiBejita


Vegerot1990	Oct 21 2017, 08:55 PM Post #24
Posts: 490 Group: Member Member #13,460 Joined: August 21, 2016 Gender Male	superperfectnerd Oct 21 2017, 08:36 PM If Zamasu can achieve blue tier power on his own then why did he need to steal Goku's body in the first place? If Zamasu is that strong then Merged Zamasu being hurt by Goku amped attack is even worse kaioken or not, he should be far too strong to be 'surprised' by an attack from Trunks and Vegeta and then Goku as well. This rationalisation of these moments by you is just as silly as my rationalisation of Trunks fighting Black and Zamasu pushing back Goku. The feats in this arc and Super in general are just inconsistent. Goku himself said that Zamasu had great potential. Even Rivaling Beerus one day. Maybe he trained with Black to reach that level who knows. Goku wasn't able to overpower him in the first fight. This is fact. Later after Goku got stronger, Zamasu was easily overpowered.



superperfectnerd	Oct 21 2017, 09:02 PM Post #25
Posts: 3,718 Group: Member Member #11,519 Joined: July 15, 2014	Goku and Vegeta never act like immortal Zamasu is a threat beyond being immortal. He may have traded blows with them to make the fights look cool in those moments but every time Goku got the upper hand the attacks he delivered would have killed a mortal Zamasu. Yes Zamasu got stronger since the present but he cannot be ssjb Goku level ever, that's why he needed to steal his body or become immortal in order to overcome a saiyan's superior potential. He started stronger than Freeza and has had years to train and catch up and yet he's not on Freeza's level because some mortals have shown themselves to be infuriatingly strong and he can't surpass or equal that because it ruins the whole narrative and motivation for the character in the first place. Edited by superperfectnerd, Oct 21 2017, 09:02 PM.



Evil Vegeta	Oct 21 2017, 10:22 PM Post #26
Posts: 70 Group: Member Member #14,086 Joined: October 5, 2017 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Vampire Princess Miyu, School Rumble, Great Teacher Onizuka, Dragon Ball Z Favourite Manga Dragon Ball Z	ThePrinceOfSaiyans Oct 21 2017, 08:55 PM Didn't Black and Zamasu wipe out all mortals in all 12 universes? I imagine that'd take a while, which would give Zamasu plenty of time to get stronger. I think it was only said that Black and Zamasu took out every Kaioshin of the various universes in order to wipe out the Hakaishin. Edited by Evil Vegeta, Oct 21 2017, 10:23 PM.



Thiln	Oct 21 2017, 11:00 PM Post #27
Posts: 2,481 Group: Member Member #12,166 Joined: March 23, 2015 Gender Male Favourite Anime Dragon Ball, Attack on Titan What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Hokuto no Ken, Berserk, Dragon Ball, Rurouni Kenshin, Attack on Titan, Kuroshitsuji	Zamasu in the manga displayed some more of the conventional Kaioshin type abilities like paralysis arts and biokinesis. Kiai Gan would also be valid if you assume that Black's demonstration of the power is indicative of what the original Zamasu can do. Had he been allowed to capitalise on those abilities, I see no reason for him to fail against any of the Saiyans. You have Toriyama's antipathy towards psychic abilities to thank for Zamasu, and arguably by extension Shin, not appearing more competent. Edited by Thiln, Oct 22 2017, 03:37 AM.



superperfectnerd	Oct 22 2017, 12:12 AM Post #28
Posts: 3,718 Group: Member Member #11,519 Joined: July 15, 2014	I realise the manga and anime are separate but shouldn't they somewhat inform each other? In the manga Zamasu is strong but he's not on their level and it's his immortality and psychic abilities which make him formidable, the anime is different but Zamasu shouldn't be massively stronger in one compared to the other.



Muyasuki	Oct 22 2017, 12:18 AM Post #29
Posts: 743 Group: Member Member #6,973 Joined: November 12, 2011	My theory (and it actually covers the speed at which characters gain power in Super) is that interacting with someone using or employing God Ki frequently (i.e. SSJSB Vegeta and Goku) unintentionally increases another's gain in terms of power growth. It actually explains a lot. The other way to deal with it is just to not think about it.



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